Today I’m bringing you a conversation I’ve been trying to have for some time.
My friend Billy Peard lives in South Tucson, Arizona, where his law practice serves some of the most vulnerable members of our society. When I met him back in 2014, his main legal focus was on the rights of workers — farm workers, especially — and the rights of immigrants. When it comes to immigration law, Billy is the most knowledgeable person I know, having spent years as a staff attorney for Community Legal Aid in Springfield, Massachusetts, and then as an immigration lawyer for the ACLU in Arizona.
I reached out to Billy because I hoped he could help me understand how we’ve arrived at this moment.
I think we can all agree—no matter your personal feelings about ICE or a policy of mass deportation—that something feels fundamentally different in our country today. We’re not used to this. We’re not used to stories about ICE agents detaining five-year-old kids. We’re not used to reports of ICE agents harassing local police officers. We’re not used to seeing our fellow citizens mobilizing to alert their neighbors to the presence of ICE agents in the community. We’re certainly not used to seeing an American citizen shot and killed by an ICE agent while trying to drive away.
How do we account for this? Is the second Trump administration doing anything that’s actually all that different from what came before? Or are we just getting swept up in a media-induced hysteria?
I asked Billy about all this and more. As you listen, you may notice that the word “unprecedented” is used more than once. Billy believes that ICE’s conduct under this current administration is indeed unprecedented—and very likely unconstitutional. But to understand exactly how this moment is unprecedented, it’s important to understand how we got here, and Billy very generously helps us do that. Some topics we cover:
Billy’s journey into immigration law
SB 1070, the Arizona “show your papers” law, passed in 2010, which galvanized the left and inspired Billy to get involved
Immigration law during Trump’s first term
Biden immigration policy: Was it an open border?
America’s complicated—and often contradictory—relationship to immigration
Immigration enforcement under Trump 2.0
Is ICE only targeting serious criminals? If not, is this what people thought they were voting for?
What is due process and why should Americans care about it?
The effectiveness of nonviolent civil disobedience
A note on the recording: Billy did the whole interview while watching his two-year-old daughter Milena. If you notice an occasional awkward cut, it’s because Billy got up to go get her a snack or find another coloring book for her. You’ll also have the privilege of hearing from the kiddo directly. Big thanks to Billy—and to Milena for letting me borrow her dad’s attention for a little while.
A few hours after recording this conversation, I made my way to the Count Basie Theater for Bob’s Birthday Bash, the main event of the annual Light of Day festival in New Jersey. Light of Day uses the power of music to raise money and awareness in the quest to end Parkinson’s disease. (Support the cause here.)
Springsteen showed up unannounced and ended up playing fifteen songs—one of which, “Promised Land,” he introduced with a speech about the moment we’re in and a dedication to Renee Good. National headlines followed. I love him. Check out his speech and his performance below. I was sitting right near the person filming; maybe you can hear me voicing my approval.
This show gave me something I didn’t know I needed. Bruce has a way of doing that; he’s been it my whole life.
Well there’s a dark cloud rising from the desert floor
I packed my bags and I’m heading straight into the storm
Gonna be a twister to blow everything down
That ain’t got the faith to stand its ground
Blow away the dreams that tear you apart
Blow away the dreams that break your heart
Blow away the lies that leave you nothing but lost and brokenhearted
The dogs on Main Street howl
’Cause they understand
If I could take one moment into my hands
Mister I ain’t a boy, no I’m a man
And I believe in a promised land
— Bruce Springsteen
